Jack Neicho [00:00:53]

We are very excited to welcome our next guest onto the no big deal podcast, Mick Gosset.

A bit of background to Mick. He has been a sales rep for many years now, and has been a multi wide top performer at every company he’s been at. He started at a French company named TinyClues, where he was the top performer in the UK market. He then went on to Yieldify, where he was the top sales rep in 2018 and eventually went to lead on their entire sales team. 

He later went on to our very good friends over at Outreach, sure, where he would have competed directly against Jack and I. And he’s now founded a startup called JointFlows, which aims to help sales and revenue teams to forecast a lot more accurately. 

Outside of that, he is an ex champion French gymnast, so I’m sure he took a lot from what he learned in that sport. The resilience about being a gymnast into sales. And he’s going to be speaking to us today about a deal that he sold at Tinyclues. Thanks for coming on, Mick.

Mick Gosset [00:01:55]

Thank you, guys. Nice to meet you.

Jack Fox [00:01:58]

Mick, what’s your take on that introduction? Have you got a good version of that?

Mick Gosset [00:02:03]

Goosebumps! 

I’ve got my shirt on, but yeah, massive goosebumps.

No, it’s good.

Doing a lot of sports, obviously, and then transitioned into into the sales world felt like it was all there to start with. You know, a lot of similarities, a lot of things that could apply on on on either side. So the competitive mindset, chasing targets, having to perform when when it’s required, working on strengths, weaknesses, the stress that goes with it, the adrenaline that goes with it as well. 

So no, I’m really happy where I am and hopefully we can help salespeople with Jointflows as well, be a little bit less stressed.

Jack Neicho [00:02:41]

What is the adrenaline rush like of winning a competition in gymnastics vs to closing a big deal?

Mick Gosset [00:02:49]

I think the the rush happens between the end of the of the run and when you know where your ranked. I think once you’ve landed, you kind of know whether you did well or not. 

But that’s that five seconds just be just after the end of the run, when, where you kind of stop it and you’re like “Wow, that’s it!”. “A) I have survived” which is always a plus and and “B) I think I’ve landed it quite perfectly. So that should take me somewhere.” And then the announcement of where you rank is, yeah, Cherry on the cake.

Jack Fox [00:03:26]

And I guess so. Let’s use that as a segue here. Then we won’t work backwards from the deal, would pick it up from the start. But you tell us you’re going to tell us a deal that give you PTSD previously not to ruin the story. 

But tell us, are you able to give us a bit of an overview of where this deal? I guess not. When you first knew there was a deal to be had to steal started, we’ve got an opportunity here. Tell us about that.

Mick Gosset [00:03:46]

Yeah, so it was back in the day. So I was a little bit younger and a lot of the events where were still running so like: trade events, face to face networking events.

And we were selling into tier 1 accounts, retailers. So you knew like you have the top 500 then we were selling into really the top 25, top 50. So we had a list of of companies to go after, and then these guys were attending one of those matchmaking events. 

So it was all over trying to build a strategy and then see what message we could push forward, which would be like: “Okay, yeah, we need to have that initial meeting”. 

But it was never cold because we were constantly obviously nurturing with emails and doing all these multi-touchpoints email campaigns. 

At the time, LinkedIn was a little bit less imposing, so it was very much about picking up the phone or sending emails. 

When we first got in touch with them. We knew we had 15 minutes, 20 minutes time slot and we needed to impress, and we needed to have it spot on. 

So what we decided to do was to do our executive alignment right at the stop. So basically, bring the founder on the initial match-making call and lead from there with obviously a checklist, things we needed to needed to achieve. And I think we did a good job because we got a meeting straight away with the decision makers. 

What we didn’t realise was how complicated it would be to then go to group level. 

So that group was is a massive group which is made of eight brands and eight rounds with individual P&Ls. 

But then we realised that actually that none of this was true. So to make a decision at brand level needed the sign of by the chairman of the company who is Sir “Whatever Whatever”. 

But a really high level guy. Yeah, that took us a year, a year and a half to get there.

Jack Fox [00:05:57]

You said you brought in your founder at the start. Who did you? How high up the organisation did you go with that message?

Mick Gosset [00:06:03]

We were all the way to the top.

Jack Fox [00:06:06]

From the start?

Mick Gosset [00:06:08]

Oh, no, no. At the start, that message landed with the CRM. We were selling into marketing teams (CRM) with the head of CRM at one brand. But then we escalated basically. Then we essentially pulled our decision maker out to be able to reuse that that card again. And then we we kept kept on building, multi-threading and do all these things that increase momentum.

Jack Neicho [00:06:37]

What? What I would be really interested to find out, Mick, is when you get that initial meeting with such a large brand. With so many stakeholders, how do you visually map out the stakeholders that you think you need to engage?

Mick Gosset [00:06:53]

We did. 

So we made assumptions to start with, based on similar deals we closed, but because we were were first in the region. 

So I was the first man on the ground for that specific company, and we realised that the sales process that we had in the UK was fairly different than the sales process we had in the headquarters. 

I don’t know if you can hear me guys, but the connection is a little bit weak. 

So it was very assumption based, based on the typical org-charts that we will see in France, and that was the first assumption. Then there was a LinkedIn map out so: “Okay, well, usually we deal with CRM directors, head of marketing, CMOs, C level.” 

And then, if it’s under an umbrella, then we do the exact same path again at headquarter level of if that makes sense. 

And it was fairly close to the truth but a lot of the sales process was about leveraging our initial champion and essentially doing org-chart mapping, like physical org-chart mapping. 

So I would pull out a spread-sheet and then: “So tell me who is reporting into who? Who has got budget access? Who doesn’t? Who has got technical sign off to make? Who doesn’t? Who has got decision power? Who’s got influence?”

And then once we are at the top of the brand, like, how do we do this multiple times so that we get an Army of champions essentially pitching at group level. 

But yeah, he took us…. And because it’s so, there’s so many moving parts, none of this is It is true, as in the data that you get, forever true, because people they move on, they change, they get promoted. 

So you have to do that consistently throughout the sales process.

Jack Fox [00:08:48]

This is somewhere where a lot of sales reps trip up is when they do have an idea of where the power lies or where budget lies or and they’ve got a contact that they’ve got at the business. 

One of the hardest things is then getting more contact in the business without burning bridges. 

Effectively, just like ruining the relationship you’ve got at the moment. 

How did you manage that in this instance where there is so many moving parts?

Mick Gosset [00:09:08]

I think there is twofold. 

The first one is you have to have a champion who is happy to be kind of, not bypassed, but enabling you to move the conversation over. 

And this person has to accept that his level of power or her level of power and influence stops at a certain level. 

And I guess where things get complicated in sales is twofold Really: You get comfortable with the data you’ve got, the information you’ve got and then you stop exploring and get more data. And you know, I got really good champion and this person is telling me everything I need to know.” But… Do they? … You know. 

That’s the role of the manager, and that’s the role of your sales team to kind of challenge your status-quo. 

And the second is: “How do I actually get this person to hand me over to other decision makers with our without calling this person obsolete, you know…” 

And you have to work on both. So we used this person to move up vertically so within that brand and then within the group. And then we did the exact same action into other brands. 

What we didn’t know at the time was that there was going to be a full re-org happening, happening within halfway through the sales process, basically. 

And meaning that from eight individual brands feeding into that one group, you only had four to deal with. 

So they merged, they did like pairs basically of brands with, like similarities. It means that all the org chart was wrong. The decisions have changed. They didn’t know who was responsible for what anymore. And had we been at Brand level then I think to deal would have been lost. 

We had a foot in the door at Group level which saved the deal, I think at that time.

Jack Fox [00:11:13]

Have you got anything that you do tactically to help move through their like anything like this is an idea of the way I can get this champion to feel comfortable with me by passing them. This is an idea of the way that I can get past him about them feeling obsolete because that’s something that takes a little bit of emotional intelligence, but it’s critical to not burn your bridge but also keep moving forward.

Mick Gosset [00:11:33]

Yeah, I think a lot happens during the discovery call. 

I don’t like to call it to call because I think discovery happens throughout. 

But whenever you’ve got Discovery moment, I think it’s really important to understand who is responsible for which metric and whether they’re solely responsible for that metric or not. 

And the world “solely responsible for” I think is really important, because there’s going to be a person who’s certainly responsible for the execution of one metric. 

And the higher you go, the more you’re like, Yeah, that’s my job to look after conversion. Yeah, that’s my job. 

And then you see that they distribute the the tasks and responsibilities, but it feeds into one spot, right? So marketing would be responsible for marketing metrics, whatever…. 

And during the discovery question, I think the emotional intelligence has to bridge with what’s a little bit more logical, and that’s where essentially the tipping point is.

It’s being able to identify that and to agree on “Yeah, actually, this is where my responsibility stops and become someone else, someone else’s responsibility or it feeds into someone else’s metric”.

Jack Neicho [00:12:55]

That was beautiful. 

And to add to that, I think I’m going to say “From selling into enterprise, you know, the metrics and who is responsible for”, like, I’m sure Jack knows because he sells into enterprise, I’ve only been an SDR into that. But normally you’re just trying to tag that into a company objective, that hopefully is actually publicly available via some annual report. Did you have that as part of this process?

Mick Gosset [00:13:22]

We did, but it felt like because we were quite low down to start with, if felt like, none of this was as important as it should have been, if that makes sense, and where we where we start to understand, was when we were where we were getting started at group level, basically, because what you want…

Metrics are fine, and I think you need to have them but if they are not linked to a personal consequence, and if this is not put on the timeline, then this becomes a dead opportunity. 

So for any metric you have to understand what happens if this doesn’t get delivered? And when this needs to be delivered by at the latest? And that gives you a compelling event. That gives you a business case.

And often, I find that, I do it as well. I get a little bit too comfortable understanding the metric and be like: “Why wouldn’t they do it?” You know. “I’ve got a really strong business case here!”. 

But actually, what you’re missing out is your compelling event. And what happens if you don’t actually get to that metric, Which is the personal consequence and that emotional intelligence to get the personal consequence out of people, I think, is what differentiates extremely good sales people Vs the rest.

Jack Fox [00:14:46]

Jack and I had a conversation about this recently. 

It’s like you can work out what the metric is. You can work out a compelling event. You can tie it to some difficult pain bla bla bla bla bla. 

You can also get an idea of somebody’s personal win or personal loss or the issue that’s downstream from them not doing this from a personal perspective, but you’ve got to be really subtle and you’ve got to be really nuanced with your language to be able to relay that back to them in a way that doesn’t feel as though it’s like uncomfortable, awkward leverage.

And saying something like: “Solely. Are you solely responsible for this metric? Are you solely responsible for this being delivered on time?” is a really smart way of saying: “Are you going to introduce me to the other people who care about this or are we just going to be in an echo chamber?” 

I think that’s a really smart way of using, like a really nuanced, subtle word that gets somebody to say: “No, it’s not just me. Actually, that person down the corridor, let me go and get them need to be involved in the next conversation.” Which is really critical when you’re dealing with four brands under one company heading that all managing their own P&L just like, of course, you’re not solely responsible for this. 

So shall we have a meeting with the other people? And that’s kinda hard.

So impressive, obviously impressive. 

But you managed to gather all these people. Did you manage to heard the cats and bring them all together next? Or did they come to you?

Mick Gosset [00:16:00]

No. So we did a group, so we did a push-tender as opposed to a pull…

So a pull-tender: they put the tender out, you apply to it. 

And then there’s a push-tender, which is: you make the tender out for them and then present it back. 

So we did that, essentially get all the information together. Shaped, shaped, shaped it nicely. 

And then the actual sales process started so that six months that took us to actually start the sales process was where I think we consistently set the wrong expectations internally because I don’t think we knew. 

But there’s always a push for forecasting. There’s always a push for delivering, and sometimes you kind of have to do it, whether it makes sense or not. 

So this this deal looked, it looked fine, but we didn’t want to… We don’t want to close one brand when we could have eight, and that’s a decision to make, right? 

Do you maximise and increase your risks before getting the first signature? Or do you choose to have that safer approach where you take one brand, you prove your value, then you move on to the next one you prove your value. And then you do that over time basically to increase your stake. 

But we chose the former.

Jack Neicho [00:17:15]

Pressure on!

Mick Gosset [00:17:16]

Let’s go. Yeah!

Jack Neicho [00:17:18]

You said this deal gave you like PTSD as most big deals probably do and most reps would be lying in case they didn’t. 

When you decided internally that you were going to go for, you know, we were going to try and sign all eight brands or were trying to line to the objectives of signing all eight brands. 

Where did you think along that sort of period you’d lost the deal?

Mick Gosset [00:17:40]

I think every week for a year. I lost the deal, like literally every week for a year. 

On Friday, I was like: “Oh, do I even forecast this? Do I put it close? Do I closed-lost it and then keep it under the radar and the work until it is becoming a little bit more mature.” 

But because it was such a big piece of work, I can’t, you can’t hide it. 

That’s what you spend your time on. And then if all of a sudden you got 50% less pipe and they’re going to be: “Well, what? What are you actually doing all day?”

So we kept on. But every week… 

We had a really good relationship with our champions there, and it was like Whatsapp terms from the very beginning, text text terms at the time, but very much in the pocket physically. And then it was really about navigating that, that buying process together with them. 

And I think a lot of the focus is really on. Okay, we’ve got yourselves process.

 But really, you’re trying to map that against an existing buying process. And if you’re in an innovative space, there is often no buying process in place that often the first time that is, these people will ever buy this kind of technologies. 

So we didn’t know what to go through. It was no standard CRM software, you know, it was very advanced and, I mean, the platform was incredible. 

The results were great, but there was no path to follow, so we needed to create it and we needed to maintain it, and then we needed to recycle some of the pieces so that we could fit more brands into a single path basically.

So, yeah, the deal was lost every week, every other week for six months. And then and then you get a bit of a rush because it’s back on the radar, and then you’ve made a leap forward and then a back to the drawing board again.

Jack Neicho [00:19:45]

That’s interesting. And you seem to me to focus on the decision process, being the main challenge that you really faced and them not knowing how to buy software. Really. 

How did you manage that?

Mick Gosset [00:20:01]

We got a lot of guidance, and we made sure that during the face-time we had with stakeholders to always have a next step in the diary and to…

So there are a different dimensions. 

There’s C-level king of decision makers, and: they don’t want to have a recurring status update scheduled because they’ve got other things to do. 

These guys were like, you know, billion pound worth. So you are a little part of their day, and for you it’s everything but, really they’ve got of lot of things going on. 

But anyone a little bit more operational. We were weekly, on a weekly cadence, basically of meetings of: “Okay, well, we’re going to meet for 15 minutes unofficially are a little bit less formal, and then cover what we’ve learned this week. What progress we’ve made.” And then we will have our, you know, milestone meetings, basically to go and discover new processes we have to go through.

Jack Fox [00:21:06]

And this is interesting for me, because we, uh we get grilled on this internally. 

Like: “What? Your next steps? Have you got a closing plan in place?” 

And it often feels like you’re kind of making up on the fly because you have to, because it’s a dynamic scenario in so many different people involved it from their side. But sales management tend to think that: “No, there is a process in place. And I just need to hear it.”

Now that you’re on the other side of the table. Me & Jack are still reps. Although you still sell, you know, like your sales management, for the most part, do you still agree with that?

Mick Gosset [00:21:42]

With the necessity to have a next step?

Jack Fox [00:21:45]

Yeah. No, no, no. The idea that this there is a process that you should be following or you far more on the reps side now? Still that, you know this can be made up on the fly?

Mick Gosset [00:21:57]

Look I’ve built a technology around it, so I’m very much on the reps’ side. 

I think it has to be flexible enough. And I think you have to be able to drag in whatever workflow you have to facilitate the buying process.

And when an organisation grows, I think you get comfortable with: “Hey, look, we’ve got a repeatable sales process and everybody has to fit in it. And if they are not fitting within our sales process that the opportunity is not great.” 

But I think your sales process should be a compass to achieving specific milestones in a specific order or in a specific order ish. 

And then you should be able to have the creativity. They needed creativity to actually get that align with a buying process.

If all you’re doing is forcing yourself process then most people won’t fall within it, you know. If all you’re doing is trying to map your requirements with buying process, then it becomes way more about them versus you.

Jack Fox [00:22:58]

It not hard to see how you ended up where you ended up.

Jack Neicho [00:23:02]

I love the idea of the buying compass.

Jack Fox [00:23:05]

Yeah, me too. Like there’s a map and there’s a key and there’s a compass. 

But really like they’re not all different parts to the thing and also there is instincts and intuition and that comes into play with this. Okay, so I guess this leads us into this part. Where did you where did you recognise that? There was some blood in the water. And, you know, there was a deal to be done and that you were potentially going to win it. And you and you, you’re going to drive things forward aggressively.

Mick Gosset [00:23:31]

We knew from the start that the problem they had was a problem we solve.

Now, there are so many ways to actually solve a problem, right? 

Whether it’s CRM, whether it’s marketing technology, you’ve got thousands of options. 

If you look at the competitive landscape, that gives you an understanding of the scale.

It’s really about the the credibility of your business case. And I think where we started to be, it started to become real was when we were doing roll out plants, and that that becomes from having a problem to Okay, this is the concept that we are going to use to achieve the problem to this is the solution we are going to roll out.

I think these three levels of moving from a concept to a reality is extremely key at a certain point of the deal to actually push the deal through and sometimes it doesn’t happen. 

And I think that’s when deals are hard to actually push. 

They don’t Actually, they haven’t moved from emotional buy to logical buy and because that transition hasn’t been made, sorry, the risk is still very high. 

Oh is this going to work? Is this is not going to work? 

Versu: “Well, I’m telling it is going to work”, “this is how much we think this is going to make” and “this is how we are going to roll it out”. And “Is this solution doable for you, like, do you commit with me to actually deliver it” and then that is just about executing it. 

So when we put that plan together, that’s when we knew. Okay, this thing has legs and now we’re just going to really out.

Jack Fox [00:25:17]

You speak in the same way I feel think about sales. 

You speak very process orientated. Like sections, you compartmentalise everything a lot. Do you think that’s lent you to be able to close bigger deals or be able to be more like your skill set is more favourable to close bigger deals as opposed to perhaps more smaller tactical deals? And do you think that helped in this scenario?

Mick Gosset [00:25:41]

Yeah, I think people need the peace of mind that you know what is required to the job done.

And when you buy a new piece of tech and the investment is significant, you don’t know if this is going to deliver.

Back to personal consequences. 

Okay, well, I need to solve that, but are you the right partner to do it? Because I’m going to, as a buyer, that’s my one card.

My one card or you’re my main card. Let’s not say one card, you’re my main card.

And if this main card fails then my credibility fails. 

But I miss my target, which then gets me to my personal consequence basically much faster than it should have. 

So you have to you have to bridge that gap and you have to materialise it. 

And I think the … to answer the question: “Yes, I think I’m very… I don’t know, like, to me, it’s a map or a puzzle, and you just place those pieces together. And if one is missing, you just don’t have it. Just don’t have the puzzle done, basically.” 

But what I think is different is: there’s deal management and there’s sales methodology. 

And then if you cross both worlds you’ve got forecasting. Right? 

Do you manage to deal well and are using the methodology to qualify where you’re currently sitting within the deal and then that enables to forecast. 

And I think deal management it’s 80% of the forecasting, 20% is sales methodology. Do you have the right criteria? Do you ask the right question?

But you can sell without a sales methodology, or you can sell with everyone in your team having a different sales methodology. Alright? It happens all the time! 

You can’t sell without deal management. Like… if you can’t manage the deal, or the pieces of the deal then you just can’t sell. The deal doesn’t happen. 

And I think what I really quickly understood was: if you’re good at managing that, then often things will happen and they will happen quicker than if you don’t have it to start with but you’ve got a sales methodology instead.

Jack Fox [00:27:54]

WOW! Yeah, have you said that before?

Mick Gosset [00:27:57]

First time!

Jack Neicho [00:28:00]

We should really sell deal management more.

Mick Gosset [00:28:03]

I know. Yeah.

It’s so important because if you think about it in little pieces put together, then it doesn’t matter when and how they happen, right? 

The order is irrelevant because, you know, every time that this piece leads to this type of workflows and they can inserted it, they can be inserted right there and that leads to these other pieces. 

If you look at it from a sales methodology viewpoint, it’s really hard to do, because it’s either, you’re either following the methodology or you’re not.

And the moment you are not following, the minute you’re not following the methodology it’s red flags everywhere because you’re thinking about it as the methodology. But it’s not.

Different little pieces put in different legal orders that leads to the same puzzle. We just have to know how they brick together.

Jack Neicho [00:28:52]

My analogy is almost identical. You know, you’ve pieces of the puzzle are now chess pieces that you have in your artillery, and your job is to not use every single one of them. But it’s to know when to use the right piece at the right time.

Mick Gosset [00:29:07]

And the great sales of people do that extremely efficiently.

Jack Neicho [00:29:10]

They might be using three chess pieces to get to the economic buyer that they know eventually gets the decision done. 

You said at the beginning of the conversation. 

It is just on that eventually, like the Chairman, was involved. 

Was that your ultimate economic buyer? Who was that person? Did you have to sell to them?

Mick Gosset [00:29:32]

Yeah, I had to sell to them, but I could not sell directly to them. No one could.

So there was. I went to the office like we spend days there, and the office play is this super powerful like: “Hey, I’m around. Can I drop in?” 

Into their world? Because you can see that, there’s a lot of things you learn just by reading white boards as you walk through the door, you know and the alleys.

And you get you get the feeling of how well on an organisation is organised, how well it’s built or how messy, how messy they are. 

So we spent. We spend days there, if not weeks meeting up and then there were a lot of things going on there because it was huge. 

But there was a massive. There was not a gatekeeper. It was like a fortress basically around that final decision maker. 

And what I didn’t realise, what overlooked was I though that these people were, this organisation was wealthy enough to sign these things off without, you know, the ultimate person to sign off. 

And actually, the further we were getting into the deal over time, the more this company was getting into financial troubles. Down to the point where the chairman of the company, the ultimate decision and the only decision maker was to sign off expenses like meals, drinks, everything over £100. 

So that’s when I realised that okay, this was going to take awhile and the business case better be strong before we actually presented it. And we got dragged into a proof of concept, which was a face to face proof of concept Vs our closest competitor. And I think that’s where we won the deal. 

We buried the competitor down before the concept even started because we had a really strong methodology. It was scientific.

There was no doubt about the outcome and they didn’t. They just didn’t. They left and left it and cover, just like, yeah, we’ll do better than them. But we knew exactly what we needed to do. And then we just rolled it out.

Jack Fox [00:32:10]

Assuming you had a big team of people working with you on this deal.

Mick Gosset [00:32:13]

Yeah, it’s always.

I was the orchestrator, but I didn’t have any. Well, I had a little bit, but I’m not a data-scientist, you know. The way they were speaking and all of that. And I think that’s probably one of the… 

What, I like the most about Salestech. 

Salestech is what are you selling is what you’re using, and you know the benefit you get from what you’re using is what you can then sell. 

And unfortunately, a lot of sales people don’t sell what they’ve got experience in, you know.

Like if you sell into Martech and, you’re in a technology company, then you may never have been a CMO of a company or whatever. 

So it’s really hard to actually relate to what’s actually happening, and the thing what is really important to do when you on board new sales People, I don’t know if it’s relevant for this podcast or not, is to get them a little bit of a taste of, you know, this is what people like this do and then what they struggle with before you actually throw them on the field.

Jack Fox [00:33:20]

I’m assuming this is another reason why you are where you are now is because bringing all those people together on your side bringing all these people together on the other side, getting all the information, relevant information matched up, paired up, shared in one central location and I think like unifying all that is probably as an inspiration to bring you into the position you are today. 

But could you once you’ve now got to the point where you recognised in the economic buyer is you’ve got your team on your side. You’ve got all the relevant people on the other side. 

Can you talk us through. You know, you mentioned PTSD earlier, but can you also talk us through like Mick outside of sales outside of the company? How are you now living like with the stress and pressure of this big thing? 

Because you’ve bitten off the whole deal as well. You haven’t just taken a small deal in the first signature to land and expand. How do you cope with that?

Mick Gosset [00:34:10]

So that’s going to sound cheesy, right? 

But I think there’s a lot of focus on trying to find the right mentor and trying to find people in your industry that can help. 

And I think to me the relationship you have to nurture the most is the relationship with the person you share your life with. 

At the end of the day, I come home and this person Hannah, either, I’m like galvanised and This is great. 

Or I’m broken and the deal has fallen through and you know, Jack we were speaking about how many times the deal died throughout the process and if you don’t have a very healthy relationship with this person, where you go back to a safe place, basically, with no pressure, no expectation or something you can’t manage, then the pressure is always on. 

So the way I managed that is, I’m trying to have the best relationship with my partner. And obviously my kids now but also have something for the body, which is like, Do something physical that help you steam off a bit. 

So for me Brazilian Jiujitsu and essentially, it’s a mix of both. Okay, speaking it through with the person you trust internally. Sorry at home and then just go burn that energy and that anger on whatever physical activity you like to do.

Jack Neicho [00:35:41]

Yeah, I think that’s great advice. No big deal podcast. But at home with your partner.

Mick Gosset [00:35:45]

The way we’re building. I can tell you Hannah knows more about Jointflows than anyone in the company.

Like she’s seen it through. And if she was on, she was not completely. If I didn’t have a good relationship, if I felt like there was a little bit of competition, unhealthy competition, then that would be difficult because I would carry that with me all the time.

Jack Fox [00:36:11]

Interesting. Yeah, let’s get deep here for a second. 

A friend of a friend of mine is single. He’s in sales and he’s been single for a long time. And we had this conversation recently. He’s stuck it a bit of a when he said, like, I just I can’t get past this next stage of my career.

And I said: “You know what? You need a Mrs like you need another half.” Somebody you come to your basically, a confident who hears it all out and tells you like: “Relax! Don’t reply to that email until tomorrow, like or go back to them now and tell them how you really feel and get out of the air.” 

Whereas if you’re on your own, you don’t have that.  Maybe it’s also the touch of a woman far more emotionally intelligent, than we are probably. This helps.

Jack Neicho [00:36:49]

Thanks a lot for joining us, Mick. That was really valuable, and I’m sure our listeners will feel the same.

Mick Gosset [00:36:54]

Thank you guys.